Interview with Race Car Former Driver Coach Enzo

I couldn’t think of a better guest than race car former driver Coach Performance, everything. He’s the man who comes with it all. He has the same values as me when it comes to developing drivers. Welcome Enzo.

Thank you very much. It’s nice to be here. What time is it where you are?

It is 7:00 PM.

Nice one. That’s good. That’s dedication and that’s what it takes to get top 100 episodes as well. So yeah, brilliant.

And I think that’s something I love about you Enzo. I am a big fun, and it’s like it’s either do it or die. I didn’t care if you want to be there just do it.

No doubling.

Yes, there’s no doubting. I love it. Thanks a lot.

Lovely.

I would love to hear more about you. How did you get started in motorsports?

Okey Dokey!  Obviously watching F1. Like most people do when they’re a kid, and it’s your dad that watches it. My dad was a… he wasn’t in motorsport at all, he was just an Italian farmer that came to England when he was 18 and opened a pizza shop. His name is Mario. He was a typical Italian, got a moustache and everything.

He was watching motorsport F1 and that sort of tickled my fancy in my early teens I’d say. But after that point, anything motorized I was in there. I loved cars I loved going on the Quads at the Sunday markets and things like that. So always that kinds of things really got me in the indoor curtain.

But then when I got to sort of end of school, so say 16 years old. I think it was a little bit more than that. It really, the bug really bit and it was like I want to be an F1 driver. And it was all I cared about then you start to see on the walls obviously everything changes, all the posters you put up of your new in idols, Mansell, Surtees people like that.

I went and got my license in ’94. So some time ago now, at Donighton but I couldn’t afford to race. It took about two years after that before I had saved all the money to buy a formula ford, even got a little cheeky buying cologne and did a club racing championship in England. That was in ’96. Yeah, ’96, 97.

I won that in the second year. So then I was on the race driver kind of trajectory to start with and then about two years. After that I started just to coach just to make a living basically. So I started to coach gentlemen driver and race schools. I worked at race schools for about 10 years or so.

 But in that time, pretty early on I was more into self-development. You know how can perform better because the coaches I had back then were always on mindset and I was like I could see what difference it was making for my driving. I used to get really nervous before getting into the car, started to handle that and then it was like, amazing. Just like opening a new sort of reality really. Seeing uh! The mind is really powerful.

Since then it’s been a fascination, I became a life coach and mental coach after that whilst I was racing. Then I got more of a kicker of coaching other people, and it was outside in different sports and things outside of motorsport. And then around 2004, I sort of merged the two and it was coaching race drivers. I worked for BMW and I was the European coach for them. I worked for F1 driver academy’s and programs doing the same kind of thing.

And then just build from that really and coaching on my own drivers and things. So it started as racing, it’s pretty short. It started as me racing, but then the fascination of self-development took me into that. And it quickly replaced being in the cockpit because I think you just get a bigger cake helping other people. It sound strenuous but I was…  I’m better at that as well than me driving.

I feel you, I feel like that. I can’t drive but I get the feeling.

I guess that’s okay to what you’ve said when you see the results of what you’ve done, come to fruition with the driver. It’s internally incredibly rewarding. Having a look at your website, you’ve dealt with companies like Petronas, BMW and Mercedes as you said. Right now which is now Alpine, This comes a day after Alpine gets a win in the Hungarian Grand Prix. Tell us about some of the people that you’ve worked with through those programs.

Well, Ocon was one of them. I spent time with him in his first couple of years driving cars. That seems to be the sweets pot for where I am really. It’s when they come to cars and they’re trying to get to this F1 trajectory obviously, it’s teaching them the skills they need. On that program was with gravity which is basically Lotus F1 Junior Program. It was… Esteban was one of the last drivers we did but we also worked Grosjean was one of our drivers, Tom Bay, Marco Wittman who is in DTM, Christian Vietoris who was in DTM and  F2.

So we had quite a lot of drivers, Kevin Cogan was obviously one of them that you might know very well. Brendon Hartley for a little bit. They’re the kind of drivers I worked with there but also in BMW it was Sam Bird and people like these as well. So it’s, when you work in that industry or that area of the industry you cat help but rub shoulders with some of these kids that make it all the way. We only did one day with Max Verstappen, but that was in-car training, but you could see straight away how special that kid was. But yeah, and now it’s with Liam Lawson.

We were calling him right now. Sorry to say.

I just got off a call from him actually. That’s why I was about a minute late. And Ali Barman and Ali Gray. So these are the new breed now coming up. And it’s… yeah, there’s a bit too many to mention to be fair. When you’re working for programs and things, you do get the luxury of spending time with these guys.

What are some of the specifics that you’ve come to work through in these programs with these guys particularly guys making that transition to car racing?

 Well, everyone is different. Can I tell you what? With race drivers, it’s like any sports person. They come with natural skills that pretty much put them within the top 10 straight away. But you can have one driver who doesn’t have the confidence. One, another driver who can do it in testing but can’t do in qualifying. You’ve got another one who needs to lead the team a bit but could be a bit shy outside the car. Some might just need general driver coaching and you have to hammer on them.

So it really depends on… you kind of look at the spectrum of what it takes to succeed and at certain things they’ve got different things to focus on. Obviously now Liam is going into DTM and stuff, he’s now all over sudden had to grow up and is working with adults and his team mates could be in their 30s and things like that. So its completely different way you approach it compared to F2, which are younger and more... it’s like a razor sharp samurai sword compared to a more stained knife when you go to DTM its different. Different thing but that means you need different skills and they don’t talk about driving anymore, you’re talking about car developments and things like this.

So it really depends on where they’re at, but normally its creating the kind of person that and perform on demand that is marketable because that’s quite big. You can be fast but if nobody really cares about you then it’s hard to make a career. It’s so wide what you have to teach them. Like you say with the psychology the nutrition, the marketing and all the things that you do, it’s like people can see that as being that’s very wide actually that’s what they need to be good at.

And sometimes they’re good already on their own so you don’t need to pay attention too much there. So you go to the other area. But what I’ve found with everybody and it’s in every sport is the mental side is the bit. Its them having confidence, tits them being able to perform on demand that seem to be the number one for me. And if you develop the whole thing around that, the rest of it sorts itself out eventually. And if you make sure that they go into every race weekend in a structured way, so okay what have we learned from the last time out?

Obviously, what are the most important things? So just one or two things that we take through to the next race weekend and that’s our only goal. We don’t think about results it just, I am going to execute the first lap in the race say. Say that’s all they care about. Okay? It’s all were going to do this weekend everything else will be the same. So yeah, it’s quite wide.

Enzo it’s really hard to reap places in the world of motorsport. Obviously you weren’t born and breed into it like a lot of people are. How were you able to open doors and to get into all these fantastic brands that you’ve had the opportunity to work with?

I think it’s a brilliant question by the way. Really cool question. If you try and reverse engineer it, it’s just making sure you do a good job and talk to enough people. [crosstalk 0:11:34] I mean I would have never known it was going to go where it’s gone. I was just this kid from a Council of State working class, I was delivering pizzas working in factories. I am not from this industry at all. When you did good on the track you self-promote yourself. 

I mean I was calling up PR companies saying, you know I want you to work for me. I can’t pay you, but I’ll get you some clients and then that will more than enough for the little bit of work I want. Race teams are just got used to saying I haven’t got the money but ill win.so it’s just really cocky. When you get an opportunity you got to bloody do good obviously. Then jut doing that over a decade or two decades you just find your way don’t you? But I think that’s the big thing, it’s being patient.one drivers [crosstalk0:12:22] they want it now.

Yes.

You made some tremendous points about the off track stuff. In that you can be the fastest driver in the world, but if you get in front of the camera and you can’t speak or you go to a sponsor and you can’t actually come up with some talking points that sell of racing or even sale yourself. Then you’ve got massive drama. So pretty it’s much it’s…there are generally say 75-80% off track and the 20% on track.

 Yes, it’s a perception, it’s no different to a company. Sometimes a company the product is alright but are still the biggest company in the world. You know what I mean if you’ve got a good product and you market it well, then yeah you’re an apple. That’s fine but that’s the ultimate. That’s when you see the world champions there’s only probably one every ten years right? I think we’ve probably got two at the minute, but normally its one every ten years or so.

That’s what it takes but it’s… you’ve got to communicate with people because a lap time is a lap time. If you’ve got a driver that’s 2/10^th slower, but he’s got 400,000 followers or he’s really good  at leading team or he’s really good at engineering the car this is kind of like Kimi Raikkonen really.

Yeah [inaudible 0:13:38]

Absolutely genius when he’s talking up a car he will come in and tell the engineers about what to put on there. That’s so valuable and everyone else can’t really see that. So he’s not as quick as he used to be but it’s not… there’s more to it. If it was just that, then he would have been ousted a long time ago. They deliver more and yeah, outside things, that’s where the champion is really made really not just turning a good lap time.

I think we’re seeing that currently with Sebastian Vettel. If you look at the stuff that he has done this year, certainly being part of the Aston Martin cognizant team this year is really giving him a different focus. I think they’ve got a very different outlook to the world  by some of the people that they’ve got involved with compared to when he was under the Redbull banner and  McLaren you’re seeing a completely different dude. I mean you look at what he did at the British Grand Prix, when he goes out and he starts throwing with funs rubbish out. Then he gets involved in this controversy the last 24 hours where we race as one but we don’t race as that one, but we race s one anyway. Like you know its stuff like uh…you look at Vettel he did come across at times [inaudible 0:14:51], but certainly been up against the Aussies. He comes across the terms as being an arrogant and sort of loud, but I think that he was a product of his environment and I think now were seeing the real Vettel come through.

Enzo:  Yeah, I mean I remember him In BMW days when he was racing for the BMW F1 team and he sued to come and see… because I ran the scholarship that BMW had. So we had about8 drivers that are in formally BMW all wearing the same colors all their cars were all the same colors and they were part of an academy where they got taught you know fitness training and I was just running that and coaching them on that and he used to come and see us and give a little speech to the drivers and he was hilarious.

Absolutely hilarious. He’s got the same kind of British sense of humor but he used to give his time to…take almost half an hour and it’s on the stage and talk to them all every single weekend pretty mush. And I was like that kid is cool. I liked him a lot. He didn’t need to do it and the way he talked is brilliant but that’s the problem with public perception. We only get to see snapshots. We get to see them at their worse than best and we can judge people so quickly. It’s not until you work with them that you see to understand how, ”oh I can see why you’re staying around for 20 years now.it makes sense”.

All the people that’re saying yes to the career like yes we give you the drive or yes you’re coming to this position. They’re seeing stuff that the public aren’t and it’s a shame. I mean, Netflix can show it a little bit through their program but even they don’t. No one really… you don’t know till you’re there. And it’s surprising actually how these so called warriors that are in the car that we say how vulnerable they’re they kind of political things that go on behind the scenes. That say if you’re a team mate to somebody on the team obviously and you’re 3/10^th off the whole season but you know that you haven’t got the update that they have but you’re not allowed to tell the public. It’s all the stuff that goes behind. You know you got team politics happening in the background that forces you to take a back seat and you can’t say, you still got to smile. There’s so much that goes on.

Yeah.

Enzo: So yeah, from the outside we don’t really get the proper…it’s the same with everything in life, right? People take a look at you or me or just have a snap judgment but they are not got a clue of what’s going on and why and all these. So yeah, it’s… if they’re staying around for a long time there’s a reason. There’s the outside stuff.

Yeah, one of the good things that…how I got to know you was through your podcast and [inaudible 0:17:28] social media as fit and so you love social media or what are your thoughts around the social media for athletes and [crosstalk 0:17:36]

It’s the new TV right? It’s important because if you… I think it was the last one I did was social media actually. The last show last week and, it’s when you get off the plane outside. You get off the plane you see everybody is on this and it’s literally nine out of 10 people are on it. Alright. And you are thinking to yourself okay, what are they looking at and you look over their shoulder and its always social media. They’re always scrolling. After that it’s probably emails or messages and things but really it’s just like a habit going to social media and it makes you realize okay,  if that’s where the eyeballs are and you’re trying to sell yourself as  a brand which  a racing driver is, then you’ve got to be present there really.

So it’s like it’s free as well to promote yourself, even though people complain about, oh it’s not really good anymore, you can’t do this. It’s actually free promotion and we’ve never had that before in life. Companies are spending a tenth on their advertising and getting double the hit that they’d get on a TV advert. So it’s like that’s… for me it’s essential you got to be on all the platforms whether it’s written, whether its video or voice or whatever. If you’re trying to promote yourself that is and sending your message out there.

I think it’s really important for race drivers and I’ve got a few drivers now three or four that have actually got race seats or big sponsorship deals or sponsorship products supply in just because they’ve got a lot of followers. So it’s giving them an income stream and some of them are on Twitch nowadays which is obviously just you streaming on the video game. And they’re making thousands a week [crosstalk 0:19:17] how the hell? You can just create money now but people are loving it. They’re providing value for [crosstalk0:19:25:0] sorry?

Where was this back in the day?

I know. Yeah, now it’s like there’s no excuse to not earn cash.

Yeah. And so do you with your podcast just stream on YouTube and then repurpose across the platform or do you have different contents for each of the platforms?

I do. I kind of speak to LinkedIn a little bit different. So to be a little bit more of a, this is a business lesson that we can take from. But normally it’s just, it’s YouTube and then I’ll take clips from tat. So record it, post up on YouTube take clips and put it around. But yeah I’d say YouTube is number one for me. And then Instagram and then Instagram is linked to Facebook so it pretty much goes there as well. I think Twitter is last ta the minute on my priority. TikTok is another one that’s coming up, but they’ve all got different… obviously you have to shoot in this, portrait or landscape where you kind of [inaudible 0:20:20] over here. So it become a full time job as you know.

Any advice for those drivers that are introverts and that’s spoken for about them having to speak in front of the media obviously doing video rec for social media content as well. We can one say, training obviously to be part of it and do you have any advice for those kind of drivers?

Number one, realize that it’s essential. If people haven’t heard of you, they won’t pick up the phone to offer you a drive because you just can’t…you can’t really peacock in the sport very well when you’re in the grid of 30, it’s so hard to strand out unless you’re winning. And if you’re not winning then you’ve got to be a profile elsewhere. And if you’re not really injecting emotion in people that are watching you, they’ll switch off and they just don’t really care about you, but that’s just the way it is.

And every big sports person I’d say was a personality, sorry everywhere it’s a bit of a wire thing. Most of them like you think of the Mohammed Ali’s and even Connor McGregor, it’s their mouths that sort of puts them on the pedestal and then I back it up with their skills obviously. But  if they were just quiet introverted  but pretty damn good at boxing they wouldn’t be anywhere near the person they were.[crosstalk 0:21:37] and you don’t have to think about  what can I create today, its literally just document what you’re doing today.

I’m going to the gym. It’s boring as hell but at least it’s something. I just had a sponsorship meeting that bummed completely. I said the wrong thing I was nervous. If someone put that up that would really… you know people are being gauged in the journey then. So it’s like a video diary that’s online I think if you do that that could be a nice way of doing it. And just photos, it doesn’t have to be video if you don’t think you’re very good in video, fine.

Yeah, that’s why I always encourage [inaudible 0:22:13] is that even they can just be the voice over to start off with. And having those still images or having the video, oh this is me at the gym that’s my [inaudible 0:22:22] 20 kilos or I have done 20 kilos by just trying to improve their confidence.

 I mean everyone is obviously different. Do you think that for the drivers that we’ve just spoken about that are on introverted scale that aren’t necessarily on I guess more flamboyant. Those, do you think that from the social media perspectives that their interest other than racing become super important then so when they’re scuba diving whether its sky diving, reading, the stock market. Does that certainly take on a whole heap of different importance?

Yeah, I never thought about it before, but that’s a really good point. Its showing a different side to you isn’t it? And these other things that you are passionate about and if you can talk about it then, yeah you do it. And you never know what part of strings that could pull on. And if a sponsor sees that you’re interested in their area a swell there’s a nice cross over. You never know where it could go from there. So yeah I think, adding a bit of color into the picture and all of that is good.

And so Enzo, the drivers that you’re currently working with now, is it purely for driver coaching, mindset or is it really when they work with you they get in that whole , I guess coach, where you are helping them with their social media and you’re helping them with their sponsorships and stuff like that.

Yeah, I’d say predominantly its personal performance. You know I’ve hit a rough patch I need to get back. I’d say that first. So when I’ve got a driver, its either I am with them at the race weekends. There’s only about three that I’ll do that with because obviously there’s not many weekends left. This last weekend was the last one I wasn’t away and I think all the way till October now. So you can only fit so many in basically. Because they’ve all got like 10 races each. So yeah, it gets a bit busy quickly.

So everyone else is kind of e-coaching. So it’ll be like this speaking to them about how was it last weekend. They send me a score sheet like on their past performance. That comes through and I will make a graph and I will make it all fancy and we can measure it and see where you’re at. And that’s always on the path to performance side. But when I first sit down with them, you sit down for two hours and we go through the driving side basically know how are they’re breaking, all the other stuff. The driving stuff.

On the second page will be mental and this is all on an excel sheet. So you go through their best times, how they perform their worst time, how did they create that.  Then the score sheet of how they are in all these different ways like the psycho matrix test as such just to know where they’re at there. And speak to their team manager or their parents to see their perspectives as well. So you get like a mental mode… a driving model and a mental model. Then I go into their work ethic. How they spend their hours and we will do they know the tracks, what are they doing? What’s their lifestyle, their environments? And then the marketing side is also quite big in terms of what are you doing? What’s the reach you’ve got? Because obviously they say I’ve got 1000 TikTok  subscribers or followers, I’ve got 4000 over here, I’ve got 500, I’ve got 200 there and you sort of add them all up so you can see your reach because that’s obviously quite important for them to know.

When it comes to sponsorships, so they can price you properly and improve it. If it’s like Jesus I’m not even on Instagram. So it just aware to that. So it’s the overall one. So that gives me a really good snapshot. Quite deep but a good snapshot of where they’re at and it’s like okay what are we struggling with? What’s the main priorities and usually its personal performance. Their mental and the driving. So I’m their mostly to be fair. And then we just go into, have you done a post today? You know what I mean. 

I don’t really major on the marketing side, on that side. And if they need side on sponsorship, it’s like okay let’s talk about that. What do we need to do, let’s try and get some 500 pound sponsors in. even though the space on the car is probably worth 20 grand, let’s just sale it for 500. Give them a good time, get them in the door, let them know that it’s a deal and hopefully they’ll sign up for next year.

So it’s kind of trying to think okay what we can do now that will help you in six months. And if they haven’t got the confidence to go and speak to them, giving them that and helping them team up with people that have got the confidence to sale. So yeah, it’s quite wide but I’d say predominantly, it comes down to the mental and the driving.

 And has Covid affected your business over the last 18 months or has it not?

It did yeah.   Originally there was no racing so it was like okay, what are we going to do about this? That probably a big income supply right there gone. And not for income but I thought, right? Let’s do some training online now. So I’ve gotten better at simulator and I started to train the drivers on e-coaching and getting into a room together should we say a session together. This is all about qualifying then were going to do a race at the end and it kind of grew over about two weeks and we had about 30 drivers and then I thought okay let’s do a championship.

I called it the April Isolation or Isolation April I can’t remember now. And started to invite different drivers, drivers started to invite different drivers and we got it livestreamed and it did really well and we had Londo Norris and all sorts of people in there. Lots of juniors. I think it was 105 drivers that we had signed up and about 40-60 would turn up for the race. And it was really good it took off and I thought hang on, there’s no live TV now. We’re not on TV so we went to BT sport and we said, were doing this, we got big names in it, are you interested in putting it on TV live. And they snapped it up.

So I said okay, were doing May Isolation now. This kept us busy or a while with two seasons if you like two month worth and now I just do it once a year in January. I call it the Ultimate E-driver now. But yeah, so that sort of took up the first few months and then before July, I think it was. By July we were back on track. So the only thing [crosstalk 0:28:49] travelling. Because all the test you have to do, all the isolations, all the rules, they keep changing. So I think that’s the biggest pain. Lots of paper work now to fly away. Like you get to the airport and you find out you’re not allowed to transit through Switzerland because you’re from the UK and you go, ugh God. So then you have to change your flight. So I think it’s all things like that that are more pain in the ass.

We had those issues until we can’t even go interstate at the moment. So it’s…

And now it’s locked down alright?

Were like seven different countries at the moment. So like within one big brown land and I mean Belinda has obviously had a lot  tougher than what I have in terms of lockdown but my city, my state has gone Into lockdown just at the weekend and at least next week if not it will be longer of course.im getting started but-

Basically we haven’t had continued or a whole state racing since the Grand Prix last year. We’ve had…we’ve tried to have [inaudible0:29:56] championships then we had like three rounds this year that hardly get any. A lot of the national race can’t run because we can’t get people in and out of each state. It’s actually…it so chaotic over here at the moment. [crosstalk0:30:10]

Well, it’s weird because at the minute they said well the cases are rising so were going to do, were going to open up completely. I said okay that’s an interesting way of doing it. It might work because obviously the vaccine will…the death count isn’t that bad at the minute so it’s still an experiment that were running.

I think its main bottom lies in the experiment. I mean when you look all the Euro search into most of the England games during the Euro at Wembley, the atmosphere have never, I don’t think watched a sporting event rose in atmosphere like the national anthem at Wembley. And then you go to the British Grand Prix. Absolutely phenomenon that was in so many ways on Friday and Saturday getting to Sunday.

Yeah, it was mad.

You know it was just… I had goosebumps pretty much the whole weekend watching all of that because [inaudible 0:31:03 ]a few of your British  drivers but, I had goosebumps watching  a lot of that over that weekend and it’s amazing to see that also American sports now that they get back open and everything else. Quite incredible yet we just tumbling from one place to the other with not a case to see 20 cases there, 17.

Yeah, it’s crazy. But it was a day before lockdown that we actually did Grand Prix. On Friday I went to Buckhurst to watch Liam on the field. I also went out in the crowd and it’s like you’re thinking okay one in 60 people because 1000000 people have got coved at the minute. One in 60 have got it. So, he’s probably got it, he’s prob…so I was trying to  keep away from everyone because it’s no mask and everyone was just out there getting drunk, it was hilarious. So I was like it’s like walking through the walking dead you know. Trying to keep away.

Easier said than done in a crowd of like 140,000 people.

Yeah, it’s mad.

It’s a big place.

Enzo, thank you very much for all your insights today. I really appreciate your time and it was great to hear exactly what you do do. And really showcasing to drivers that as you go through the ranks that this is important if not more to actually have everything aligned.  The fitness, the nutrition, definitely their minds also but also knowing their sponsors, knowing what social media content they’re going to do and basically having the confidence to do media training and to promote their brands.

Yeah. If you got to see yourself as a company, you need the product and you need the market and it’s not different.

My whole slogan, motorsport is a business. That’s why I kept saying, every episode I am like guys motorsport is a business you have to treat it like a business. I am very passionate about that. Where can people learn more about you and follow your journey and get some tips and strategies [inaudible 0:33:03] of yourself.

Well, luckily my name is the upscale, it’s quite easy to find on google search, but yeah just racedrivercoach.com is the website where I base myself. So yeah, anything on there and you’ll see the social media links on there.

And I do quite often write partial links into our free Facebook groups.

Thank you.

Thank you. And yeah I think it’s just that information that you do provide, sometimes in five minutes of course your YouTube videos sometimes you have 15 minutes and yet you-

So random.

And you just go on a rant. But it’s just black and white and it’s just like you just have to do it and if you don’t do it then don’t turn in this video.

 Honestly I have got to do todays driver coach show episode after this. I don’t know what I am doing on yet. So it’ll just be press play, sorry press record and let reap [?] I think it will be on the Grand Prix yesterday. I don’t know. I don’t know but yeah, it is literally [crosstalk 0:33:57]

 How about the fact that you haven’t watched the Olympics.

Yeah, maybe I should do that [crosstalk 0:34:02]

Pretty special for you like with your relationship with Ocon and Vettel of course where they...Vettel got disqualified but finishing hard in there and especially Ocon getting his first ever grand Prix victory and such a fun drive I mean. Yeah, I mean it’s a pretty special [inaudible 0:34:26] to celebrate for you. On personal level.

 It is. Yeah, I did text him actually. He has just got back this morning and I think he must have about 1000 messages I can imagine. But yeah, he will be over the moon I mean me… just one more thing. He’s a kid who, we picked him up in-car training to pay for his racing basically because that is what gravity did. They funded drivers which is amazing. There’s not many programs like that now. He was living the caravan with his dad, his dad was a second hand cars sales person and he just like, the story for him to go to go from where he was to where he is now is... it just shows people that it’s possible nowadays.

I mean Bottas, Hamilton, none of them came from money. There so many of them that did actually…they’re in the same boat and it was because they obviously, they got the cash to do the first part and they won and then somebody took a shining to them and they met somebody who said  alright, I can invest in your career. Like Liam Lawson hasn’t got the cash on his own you know? Most of them haven’t because it’s so expensive. You’re talking about F4 is quarter of a mill. This is pounds now. So double it. Then you’ve got F3 is a million,   two million for F2, it’s like who’s got that cash really.  Not many drivers that have so it’s like for all the drivers that are out there that haven’t got the money, just race in anything even if it’s MX5s that’s close to 20 grand a year.

Anything, as long as you’re winning and you’re shouting about it, you’ll never know where it can go. So don’t think I’ve got to be in F4 and then you spend the wins you’re trying to get the 300 grans or whatever to get the 4A and you fail so you end up racing nothing. It’s just no no, go and race low costs, anything it will get you out there.

That’s why I say like [inaudible 0:36:12] doesn’t aspire to be a Formula 1 driver they also don’t aspire to race the supercar. They’ve goals in very different levels and people have got to be realistic too about what they can….if they want to the sports. So it’s either race what you can afford or [inaudible 0:36:27] and this is it. Like you have to do all those things that we talked about. Getting sponsors should [inaudible 0:36:33] it’s a business here. It’s something that you protect seriously and threes a lot of things that you can do. Again Enzo, thank you very much if you’ve got any last words, tips or tricks.

 No, I think that was it.[crosstalk0:36:49] I mean aim high but obviously your first goal should be manageable and just get you out there and shout as loud as you can. And it takes a long time. I mean if you say, I’ve got a five year plan I want to be in F1 or be at Supercars by year five. It’s like that’s great but let’s just do step one first and see here it goes because a lot of the opportunities that come up, they’re unforeseeable. You know, you just meet someone on the plane and it happens to be that sponsor. You can’t really give them a template saying this is how you do it.

And you can win a championship and end up with nothing. Just like the start room is in F3 straight to F1. So was Jenson Button. It’s not like they were the champions all the time, it’s not like you must win to go up. Its opportunities meeting people and having that kind of a salesmanship that you’ve got within you to pull it off and talk to everybody.

That’s what I echo into. I just remember about you telling me that you guys are walking billboards. Like just [inaudible 0:37:53 ]especially when you are sitting on that plane, when you’re sitting  waiting to board the plane, when you’re at the shop, like everybody [inaudible 0:37:59] to find your push and tell everybody your story because you don’t know who they are or who’s in relation or they might be involved in motorsport. Not involved like you don’t know who you’re talking to but tell your story. At the worst case scenario you’ve got AA new friend that will be a new statistic on your social media following.

Exactly. That’s what Hamilton did wasn’t it with Ron Dennis. So I am going to win in your car one day. I’ll drive your car one day and he was eight years old.

 Yes, he did.

 That stand out.

Yes, it’s a fantastic story. Well, thank you again Enzo for your time today. I really appreciate it.

And you, both of you. It’s good to meet you both of you.

Thanks Enzo.

Yeah, and maybe we can come on your show one time. We’ve got a motorsport conference coming up, you can come and plug that

Yeah, I’ll do it. No problem.

 Alright. Thanks Enzo.

 Thank you.

Take care Enzo, thank you so much.